Where do we go from here?

[GravyTrain]

I have a serious question to pose to anybody willing to answer. I am curious as to where people stand on this issue. I have noticed several anti-Christian, anti-God type posts. That's fine, people may have their own opinion. But that is what I am getting at... what are those opinions. Ok, you can assume there is no God, you can assume that God is a hypocrite as you wish, but now what? Why are we here? when we are gone from this world, where do we go? What is your argument to the Christianity viewpoint of God being...well...God?

[Ivana]

I'm afraid that after we're gone from this world, we don't go anywhere. I don't believe there is an after life.

My argument to the Christianity viewpoint of God being God? What makes Christianity any more right in this matter than any other religion? People used to believe there were many gods and they thought they were right.
I don't care who's right or wrong. If a person believes in God and it works for them, gives them comfort etc, that's fine. It doesn't work for me.

<font color="#ac0000" size="1">[ March 24, 2003 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Ivana ]</font>

[SHATOUSHKA]

oi... this thread shoulda been called:

gravy temps shatzy to a long post [img]tongue.gif[/img]


but i will spare the long post because i think
we all know what i think.

#1 -- as i have preached to tg many times, i
HATE when people use 'believe' in such a manner.
everyone 'believes' in god... otherwise, you
cannot hold a legitimate conversation. belief
merely establishes an 'idea'. and since most
everyone here understands the idea behind a god,
well.... i think i've explained enough.

the real Q is:

what exactly is your standings on the idea of a god?

but lets not get technical. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

ok... here's mine:

based on what we know, there is not enough
significant evidence to support an idea such as
a god... nor an afterlife of any sort.
(unless that god happens to have support not in
perfection, but in the 'perfection in being
imperfect')

i also do not like the idea that we are 'here for
a purpose'. that seems to negate the value of
life much more than anything i've ever seen.

imagine, just for a moment.... that you are not
here for any reason... period. and that when you
die, thats it. no big whoops, no shabangs... no
nothing.
then surely the value of the time you have is
increased significantly than having the buffer
of an afterlife or some other form of reward
for a job well done.

blah blah... enough of that.


i am willing to concede that if there is a god
figure, and adequate evidence was provided
(based on a scientific principle), i'd more than
willingly change my views.

i will also add that i firmly situate myself in
the paradox that no one view can be thoroughly
evaluated and administered to that provides such
support as being absolute.

case closed [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[GravyTrain]

In response to shatzy's post:
(who hit the nail on the head with the 2nd line of her post)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">imagine, just for a moment.... that you are not
here for any reason... period. and that when you
die, thats it. no big whoops, no shabangs... no
nothing.
then surely the value of the time you have is
increased significantly than having the buffer
of an afterlife or some other form of reward
for a job well done.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally disagree with you on this point (and on all other points when it comes to christianity and religion, but that is for another thread at another time) if we have no purpose here on earth in this life. then therefore we have no purpose at all. this does not make my life any more significant, in fact it does just the opposite. that's like saying busy work makes me feel like my job is worth something. that is so not the case. when i worked at a certain insurance company, i had to file and sort paper all the time, if that didn't get done, there would be no big, no shabangs, no nothing when i got done, or if i didn' get done. that did not make my job of filing any more fulfilling, it made it that much worse that my time was being wasted at something that meant nothing.

As for the rest of your reply, well, you spoke in a language that will take me time to wade through. i am a computer science major, with a minor in math. i did that b/c of my lack of vocabulary and reading comprehension. when i have time and i am not at work, then i will reply to the rest of it. i can already tell you, i am not impressed with your argument at all.

(i don't know how this is coming across, but i am not upset, i am not mad, i am just really up for a good, a really really good debate about an issue that i care alot about)....if this is not the place for such a debate...so be it, i will private message you...however...i would like to get other people's point of view on the whole issue.

[SHATOUSHKA]

feel free to post what you like. you should know
that i'm up for anything... and while i would
say that GP is the better place to post this,
we all know GP has seen better days.

this is a good thread. keep it.


all i was saying in my first post is that
there is no significant evidence to support
a god or a no-god... its all about personal
preference. i have since found it absurd to
waste energy on giving evidence to show support
to either argument. (but i don't mind indulging
sometimes)

i understand your analogy to 'busy work'...
but it also supports my argument that you are
only doing the 'work' for a profit... which,
if i am correct, undermines your whole xtianity
theory.

[Ivana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">if we have no purpose here on earth in this life. then therefore we have no purpose at all. this does not make my life any more significant, in fact it does just the opposite.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm seeing in a bit differently. I don't think any of us are put on earth for a specific purpose which does not make our live insignificant. We make our own purpose rather than expect someone else to tell us why we're here.

[PoisonIvyrowr]

at the risk of being called an asshole or jack ass or anything else ole gravy can throw at me, I am going to post here.

I grew up not knowing anything about religion or god or anything, so its easy for me to say I dont believe. In the last couple of years, I have been introduced to christianity and all it holds. Now, I delved into this subject fully for quite awhile, mainly out of curiosity. I read the bible, went to church, listened to speakers, the whole thing.
I have to say, christians are one of the most straight forward, hardcore organizations I've ever met. They not only believe, but worship, and believe God put us here with a purpose and a plan, and they all plan to go to heaven when they die.
I have to say, I went through this whole experience with an open mind, with no expectations. Today, after the fact, I have to say I still don't believe. I saw nothing that could sway my way of thinking. I don't believe in god, simple as that. I personally, think all these poor people are going to die in vein, and there will be no fictional god there to lift them up. I dont say this to be mean or hurtful, believe me. I simply think that we have no greater purpose here on this earth, and when we die, we simply die..Hey, If I die and find out Im wrong, I'll deal with it, but I honestly dont think I am..

[Cyalaytr]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">Originally posted by GravyTrain:
I have a serious question to pose to anybody willing to answer. I am curious as to where people stand on this issue. I have noticed several anti-Christian, anti-God type posts. That's fine, people may have their own opinion. But that is what I am getting at... what are those opinions... What is your argument to the Christianity viewpoint of God being...well...God?</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hello, Acropolis.
Being welcomed to this board by Shatzy... and seeing many interesting topics but finding this one touching the soul enough to post about it, I hope you don't mind me making my introduction here.

Anyhow on with "is there a God or no God". I grow up in a small town filled with 3 things: churches, liquor stores and hotels. I can say that I got a view from all kinds of religion. I have been to everything from Baptist to Catholic, from Jehovah's Witness, from Agape to Mormon.

I don't think I found any place that gave me the belief any more so then the other that God was real or something or someone controlled the universe. The more questions I asked, the more questions I found. And they always had the same answer coming from them (the church). Just because you are not all knowing... does not mean he isn't real.

I do sympathize with them for have such strong commitment that they are willing to die for someone that they have never seen or touched. I have no such commitment to any one god though a few people have touched me enough in life that I think I could say I have spent enough time here if it allowed them to spend more.

I think people as a people want to be better and strive to live a good life and need answer to why stars fall or little babies die. Maybe in the hope of making sense of it all or in giving life a purpose, religion began its true form.

After years of Holy wars and corruption within the churches... they all believe that they alone have the answers and if that makes them better people for it, so be it. If that is what one needs to fullfill life then who am I to question it? But the irony is if you ask any religion most of them will answer that they are the only ones who will live in Heaven or what ever their religion believes when it is all said and done.

To me and all the different friends I have made and dwelling in those differences so much so to analyze why I am the way I am... I could never imagine life without those who have helped make me the person I am now. They are not all Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, etc...

They speak of God giving free will. To chose to live or die... To help or hurt... To kill or to live. Yet any time you make a person choice in life usually the 1st people to complain are the people in church.

I value religion and "church" if it is no more then a gathering of people like say this... wondering, asking, dwelling, seeking answers. But I don't think I need to go to church and pat each other on the back and tell one another how good a job we each did. For if they are out to save the world. Convert the ones who don't know or haven't given their lives to Christ... then, outside the Mormans (though I hate when they wake me from sleep on the weekend banging on the door) who is out there doing God's work???

So to answer the question.... Is there a God or do I believe in God?

HMMMM I would say "No", from an outsider's point of view. I don't practice religion. I don't attend any church. I don't prey when bad things happen or give thanks when good things come around the bend.

But do I wish there was a God (to me)? "Yes" In a world filled with hate, war, and so many questions and no answers. Having a new child I want to see grow and develop into an adult and hope that somewhere down the line I can answer why the stars are in the sky or just why....

But then again do I need to be all knowing just to believe? You draw your own conclusion.

CYA
[img]eek.gif[/img]

<font color="#ac0000" size="1">[ March 24, 2003 08:44 PM: Message edited by: Cyalaytr ]</font>

[Hannibal]

*sees a TON of big long posts and decides to just not post or read them*

[SHATOUSHKA]

i have been afk since the last time i posted on
this thread. i come back to find GREAAAAAAAAAAT
posts (PI and CYA).

i think that CYA hit a LOT of strong points.
its a good thing to come together and socialize
whether its a gathering to question or blindly
follow a blue emu... people are sharing.

the problem comes when that 'sharing' turns into
absolute truth... and that absolute truth becomes
the next gestapo.
i cannot fathom a world without SOME form of
religion, so i need not wish it.
i suppose what i despise most is the encouragement
to surrender yourself to something 'other'.
and by that i mean, not having enough faith and
courage in yourself to do what you can without
promise of a reward or some other euthanasia
of the brain/spirit. (gawd willing you people
will see that when i said 'spirit', i meant
spirit of yourself... not some ghostly inner
body or soul).


anyways...
i'm still gonna step back a bit and keep reading.


oh and... i liked this line:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">Originally posted by Cyalaytr:
Anyhow on with "is there a God or no God". I
grow up in a small town filled with 3 things:
churches, liquor stores and hotels.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

though i'm not sure if CYA meant it, i found
a vast webbing within that line. quite profound. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]